Questions for Tian問田
徐渠問田鳩曰：「臣聞智士不襲下而遇君，聖人不見功而接上。今陽成義渠，明將也，而措於屯伯；公孫亶回，聖相也，而關於州部，何哉？」田鳩曰：「此無他故異物，主有度、上有術之故也。且足下獨不聞楚將宋觚而失其政，魏相馮離而亡其國？二君者驅於聲詞，眩乎辯說，不試於屯伯，不關乎州部，故有失政亡國之患。由是觀之，夫無屯伯之試，州部之關，豈明主之備哉！」
Xu Qu asked Tian Jiu, "Your servant has heard that a wise knight does not tread the lower posts before he meets his lord, and that a sage does not show his merit before he joins the one above. Now Yangcheng Yiqu is an enlightened general, and yet he has been set in a garrison captain's post; Gongsun Danhui is a sage minister, and yet he has been made to pass through the provinces and the departments. Why is this?" Tian Jiu said, "There is no other cause and no strange thing in this. It is because the lord has his measures and the one above has his method. And have you alone not heard that Chu made Song Gu its general and lost its government, and that Wei made Feng Li its minister and lost its state? Those two lords were driven by fine talk and dazzled by disputation. They did not test them in a garrison captain's post and did not make them pass through the provinces and the departments, and so they had the affliction of losing their government and losing their state. Seen from this, to have no testing in the garrison post and no passing through the provinces and the departments, how can that be the provision of an enlightened lord!"
堂谿公謂韓子曰：「臣聞服禮辭讓，全之術也；修行退智，遂之道也。今先生立法術，設度數，臣竊以爲危於身而殆於軀。何以效之？所聞先生術曰：『楚不用吳起而削亂，秦行商君而富彊。二子之言已當矣，然而吳起支解而商君車裂者，不逢世遇主之患也。』逢遇不可必也，患禍不可斥也。夫舍乎全遂之道而肆乎危殆之行，竊爲先生無取焉。」韓子曰：「臣明先生之言矣。夫治天下之柄，齊民萌之度，甚未易處也。然所以廢先王之教，而行賤臣之所取者，竊以爲立法術，設度數，所以利民萌、便衆庶之道也。故不憚亂主闇上之患禍，而必思以齊民萌之資利者，仁智之行也。憚亂主闇上之患禍，而避乎死亡之害，知明夫身而不見民萌之資利者，貪鄙之爲也。臣不忍嚮貪鄙之爲，不敢傷仁智之行。先生有幸臣之意，然有大傷臣之實。」
Tangxi Gong said to Han Zi, "Your servant has heard that submitting to the rites and yielding is the method of keeping oneself whole, and that cultivating one's conduct and drawing back one's wisdom is the way of carrying one's purpose through. Now, master, you set up law and method and lay down measures and numbers, and your servant privately holds this dangerous to your person and perilous to your body. How do I show it? I have heard that your method says, 'Chu did not use Wu Qi and was pared away and thrown into disorder, and Qin carried out the laws of Lord Shang and grew rich and strong. The words of these two men were already fitting, and yet Wu Qi was torn limb from limb and Lord Shang was pulled apart by chariots, because they had the affliction of not meeting their age and not meeting their lord.' Such a meeting cannot be made certain, and affliction and calamity cannot be driven off. To set aside the way of keeping whole and carrying through, and to give free rein to dangerous and perilous conduct, is a thing in which I privately hold there is nothing for you to take." Han Zi said, "Your servant understands your words clearly, master. The handle by which the world is governed and the measure by which the people are made even are very hard to stand in. Yet the reason I abolish the teaching of the former kings and carry out what a lowly servant has taken up is that I privately hold that setting up law and method and laying down measures and numbers is the way to benefit the people and to make the multitude easy. So to think without fear of the affliction and calamity of a disordered lord and a darkened one above, and to think surely of the means and the benefit that make the people even, is the conduct of benevolence and wisdom. To fear the affliction and calamity of a disordered lord and a darkened one above, to shun the harm of death and ruin, to know one's own body clearly and not to see the means and the benefit of the people, is the doing of the greedy and the mean. Your servant cannot bear to turn toward the doing of the greedy and the mean, and does not dare to injure the conduct of benevolence and wisdom. Master, you have a mind that cares for your servant, but in substance you injure your servant greatly."