Gongmeng公孟

Gongmengzi said to Mozi, "The gentleman keeps himself respectful and waits. Asked, he speaks. Not asked, he is silent. He is like a bell. Struck, it rings. Not struck, it does not ring."

Mozi said, "In this saying there are three cases, and you now know only one of them, and you do not yet know what it means.

Suppose a great man works excess and violence in the state. If one comes forward and remonstrates, they call it disrespect. If one offers remonstrance through those at his side, they call it talking behind his back. This is what the gentleman doubts and is confused about.

Suppose a great man in governing is about to bring the state into hardship, as a trap is about to spring. Then the gentleman must remonstrate, and only so is it to the great man's benefit. In a case like this, though he be not struck he must surely ring.

Suppose a great man takes up some strange and unrighteous course, and though he gain a warp of great craft that may be used in the business of armies, he has a mind to attack a state that has done no wrong. The ruler, getting it, will surely use it, to widen his lands and to lay on taxes and to make a false show of wealth. Then going out he will surely be shamed, and the side attacked does not benefit, and the side attacking does not benefit either, so that both do not benefit. In a case like this, though he be not struck he must surely ring.

Moreover you said, 'The gentleman keeps himself respectful. Asked, he speaks. Not asked, he is silent. He is like a bell. Struck, it rings. Not struck, it does not ring.' Now no one has struck you, and you have spoken. Is this what you call ringing unstruck? Is this what you call not being a gentleman?"

Gongmengzi said to Mozi, "If a man is truly good, who will not know it? It is like a fine piece of jade, which stays where it is and does not come out, and still has light to spare. It is like a beautiful woman, who stays where she is and does not come out, and men vie to seek her. But he who goes about praising himself, no man takes him. Now you go about after everyone and persuade them. How toilsome that is!"

Mozi said, "Now the world is in disorder, and those who seek beautiful women are many, so a beautiful woman, though she does not come out, is sought by many. Now those who seek good men are few, and unless one makes an effort to persuade men, men will not know.

Suppose there are two men here, equally skilled at divining by the stars, and one goes about divining for others while the other stays where he is and does not come out. Which of them earns the more?"

Gongmengzi said, "The one who goes about divining for others earns the more."

Mozi said, "Their benevolence and righteousness being equal, the merit and the good of the one who goes about persuading men is also the greater. For what reason then should I not go about persuading men?"

Gongmengzi came to see Mozi wearing a zhangfu cap with a tablet thrust in his sash and the dress of a Confucian, and said, "Does the gentleman put on the dress and then act, or act and then put on the dress?"

Mozi said, "Conduct does not lie in dress."

Gongmengzi said, "By what do you know that it is so?"

Mozi said, "In antiquity Duke Huan of Qi, with a high cap and a broad sash, an iron sword and a wooden shield, governed his state, and his state was well governed. In antiquity Duke Wen of Jin, in clothes of coarse cloth and a coat of ewe's hide, with leather to hold his sword, governed his state, and his state was well governed. In antiquity King Zhuang of Chu, with a fine cap and silken hat strings, in red clothes and a broad robe, governed his state, and his state was well governed. In antiquity King Goujian of Yue, with his hair cut short and his body figured, governed his state, and his state was well governed.

These four rulers were not alike in their dress, yet their conduct was one and the same. By this I, Di, know that conduct does not lie in dress."

Gongmengzi said, "Good. I have heard it said, 'He who lets the good lie overnight is not blessed.' May I lay aside the tablet and change the zhangfu cap, and see you again?"

Mozi said, "I ask that we see each other as we are. If we must see each other only after you lay aside the tablet and change the zhangfu cap, then conduct does indeed lie in dress."

Gongmengzi said, "The gentleman must speak the words of the ancients and wear the dress of the ancients, and only then is he benevolent."

Mozi said, "In antiquity Fei Zhong, the minister of Zhou, king of Shang, was the most violent man under heaven, and Jizi and Weizi were sages under heaven. Here the words were the same, and yet one was benevolent and another was not. Dan, the Duke of Zhou, was a sage under heaven, and Guanshu was the most violent man under heaven. Here the dress was the same, and yet one was benevolent and another was not. Then it does not lie in ancient dress and ancient words.

Moreover you take Zhou for your model and do not take Xia for your model. Your antiquity is not antiquity."

Gongmengzi said to Mozi, "When the sage kings of antiquity set men in order, the most sagely they raised up to be Son of Heaven, and the next they raised up to be ministers and great officers. Now Confucius was broad in the Odes and the Documents, clear in rites and music, and detailed in the ten thousand things. If Confucius had met with a sage king, would he not have been made Son of Heaven?"

Mozi said, "One who is wise must honor Heaven and serve the spirits, love men and be sparing in use, and only when these come together is he called wise. Now you say that Confucius was broad in the Odes and the Documents, clear in rites and music, and detailed in the ten thousand things, and therefore that he might be Son of Heaven. This is to count another man's teeth and call him rich."

Gongmengzi said, "Poverty and wealth, long life and early death, lie clearly with Heaven and cannot be lessened or increased." And he said, "The gentleman must learn."

Mozi said, "To teach men to learn and yet to hold that there is fate is like bidding a man wrap up his clothes and then taking off his cap."

Gongmengzi said to Mozi, "There is the righteous and the unrighteous, but there is no blessed and unblessed."

Mozi said, "The sage kings of antiquity all held the ghosts and spirits to be divine and clear and to bring about calamity and blessing, and held that there is the blessed and the unblessed, and by this their government was well ordered and their states were at peace.

From Jie and Zhou downward they all held the ghosts and spirits not to be divine and clear and not able to bring about calamity and blessing, and held that there is no blessed and unblessed, and by this their government fell into disorder and their states were in danger.

Therefore the Zi yi (子亦), a book of the former kings, has it, saying, 'When arrogance comes forth from you, it is not blessed.' This says that doing what is not good has its punishment, and doing what is good has its reward."

Mozi said to Gongmengzi, "By the mourning rites, when a ruler, a father or mother, a wife, or an eldest son dies, mourning dress is worn for three years. For uncles on the father's side and for brothers it is one year, for clansmen five months, and for aunts and sisters, for mother's brothers and sisters' sons, there is a mourning of some months.

And in the intervals of not mourning some recite the three hundred Odes, play the three hundred Odes on strings, sing the three hundred Odes, and dance the three hundred Odes. If your words were used, on what day would the gentleman attend to government, and on what day would the common man go about his work?"

Gongmengzi said, "When the state is in disorder, order it. When the state is in order, make rites and music. When the state is poor, go about work. When the state is rich, make rites and music."

Mozi said, "A state is in order because it was ordered. Let the ordering be abandoned, and the order of the state is abandoned too. A state is rich because work was gone about. Let the going about of work be abandoned, and the wealth of the state is abandoned too. Therefore even in a well ordered state one must press on without ceasing, and only so will it do.

Now you say, 'When the state is in order, make rites and music. When it is in disorder, order it.' This is like digging a well only when one is choking, and seeking a physician only when one is dead.

In antiquity the tyrant kings of the three dynasties, Jie, Zhou, King You, and King Li, made sound and music abound and did not look to their people, and so their bodies were put to death by punishment and their states became waste ground. All of this followed this same road."

Gongmengzi said, "There are no ghosts and spirits." And he said, "The gentleman must learn the rites of sacrifice."

Mozi said, "To hold that there are no ghosts and yet to learn the rites of sacrifice is like learning the rites for guests when there are no guests, and like making a net for fish when there are no fish."

Gongmengzi said to Mozi, "You hold the three years' mourning to be wrong, so your three days' mourning is wrong too."

Mozi said, "For you to hold the three days' mourning wrong by the three years' mourning is like a naked man calling one who hitches up his clothes disrespectful."

Gongmengzi said to Mozi, "If a man's knowledge is better than other men's in some point, may he be called wise?"

Mozi said, "A fool's knowledge too is better than other men's in some point, but how should a fool be called wise?"

Gongmengzi said, "The three years' mourning is learning from my longing for father and mother."

Mozi said, "The knowledge of an infant is only to long for father and mother, and that is all. When it cannot get its father and mother, it cries and does not stop. What is the reason for this? It is the utmost of folly. Then how is the knowledge of the Confucians better than an infant's?"

Mozi asked a Confucian, "For what reason do you make music?"

He said, "Music is made for joy."

Mozi said, "You have not answered me. Now if I ask, 'For what reason do you build a house?' and you say, 'To keep off the cold in winter and the heat in summer, and to make a house the division of man and woman,' then you have told me the reason for building a house.

Now I ask, 'For what reason do you make music?' and you say, 'Music is made for joy.' This is like asking, 'For what reason do you build a house?' and being told, 'A house is made to be a house.'"

Mozi said to Chengzi, "In the way of the Confucians there are four measures enough to lose all under heaven.

The Confucians hold Heaven not to be clear and the spirits not to be divine, so that Heaven and the spirits are not pleased. This is enough to lose all under heaven.

Again they make burial lavish and mourning long, doubling the coffins and multiplying the clothes and coverlets, and sending off the dead as if they were moving house, and weeping and wailing for three years, so that a man must be held up before he rises and must lean on a staff before he walks, and his ears hear nothing and his eyes see nothing. This is enough to lose all under heaven.

Again with lute and song, with drum and dance, they practice sound and music. This is enough to lose all under heaven.

Again they hold that there is fate, and say that poverty and wealth, long life and early death, order and disorder, peace and danger have their limit and cannot be lessened or increased. If those who are above practice this, they will surely not attend to government, and if those who are below practice this, they will surely not go about their work. This is enough to lose all under heaven."

Chengzi said, "This is too much, this slandering of the Confucians by the master."

Mozi said, "If the Confucians had not these four measures and I said this of them, then it would be slander. Now the Confucians do have these four measures, and when I say this of them it is not slander but the reporting of what I have heard."

Chengzi had nothing to say and went out. Mozi said, "Meet him and bring him back." He came back and sat down again.

He came forward and spoke again, saying, "In what the master said before there was something worth hearing. But if the master's words are so, then this is neither to praise Yu nor to slander Jie and Zhou."

Mozi said, "It is not so. To answer with a ready word and to match the argument is quickness. If the attack is heavy, I make my answer heavy. If the attack is light, I make my answer light. To answer with a ready word and match the argument is like carrying a carriage shaft to strike a moth."

When Mozi disputed with Chengzi he cited Confucius. Chengzi said, "You condemn the Confucians. For what reason do you cite Confucius?"

Mozi said, "This too is fitting and cannot be changed. Now when a bird knows the trouble of heat and drought it flies high, and when a fish knows the trouble of heat and drought it goes down low, and in this, though Yu and Tang should plan for them, they surely could not change it. Birds and fish may be called foolish, and yet Yu and Tang are said to have followed them in this. How then should I never cite Confucius?"

There was one who came to study at Mozi's gate, and he said to Mozi, "The master holds the ghosts and spirits to be clear and wise and able to bring about calamity and blessing, making rich those who do good and bringing calamity on those who do violence. Now I have served the master a long while, and blessing has not come. Is it that there is something not good in the master's words, or that the ghosts and spirits are not clear? For what reason do I get no blessing?"

Mozi said, "Though you get no blessing, how are my words at once not good, and how are the ghosts and spirits at once not clear? Have you heard that there is a punishment laid on one who hides another?"

He answered, "I have not yet heard of it."

Mozi said, "Now suppose there is a man here who is ten times your equal. Could you praise him tenfold and praise yourself only once?"

He answered, "I could not."

"Suppose there is a man here who is a hundred times your equal. Could you praise his goodness to the end of your life and never once praise yourself?"

He answered, "I could not."

Mozi said, "One who hides a single man is still guilty, and now what you hide is as much as this, so that a heavy guilt awaits you. What blessing are you seeking?"

When Mozi was ill, Diebi came forward and asked, "The master holds the ghosts and spirits to be clear and able to bring about calamity and blessing, rewarding those who do good and punishing those who do what is not good. Now the master is a sage. For what reason is he ill? Is it that there is something not good in the master's words, or that the ghosts and spirits are not clear and wise?"

Mozi said, "Though I be ill, how are they at once not clear? A man gets illness by many roads. Some get it from cold and heat, and some get it from toil. If among a hundred gates one gate is shut, how is a thief at once without a way in?"

There was one who came to study at Mozi's gate, strong and sound in body and quick and clear in thought, and Mozi wished to have him follow and learn. Mozi said, "Learn for a while. I will put you in office." He urged him with good words and had him learn.

When the year came, the man pressed Mozi for the office. Mozi said, "I will not put you in office. Have you heard that saying of Lu?

In Lu there were five brothers, and when their father died the eldest was fond of wine and would not bury him. His four younger brothers said, 'If you bury him with us, we will buy you wine.' They urged him with good words, and he buried him.

When the burial was over he pressed his four younger brothers for the wine, and the four brothers said, 'We will not give you wine. You have buried your father and we have buried our father. How was he our father alone? If you had not buried him, men would have laughed at you, and so we urged you to bury him.'

Now you practice righteousness and I too practice righteousness. How is it my righteousness alone? If you did not learn, men would laugh at you, and so I urged you to learn."

There was one who came to study at Mozi's gate, and Mozi said, "Why do you not learn?"

He answered, "In my clan there is no one who learns."

Mozi said, "It is not so. Would one who loves beauty say, 'No one in my clan loves it, and so I will not love it'? Would one who desires wealth and honor say, 'No one in my clan desires it, and so I will not desire it'?

One who loves beauty and desires wealth and honor makes an effort for it without looking to others. Righteousness is the great vessel of all under heaven. Why look to others? One must surely make an effort for it."

Among the disciples there was one who told Mozi that he wished to learn archery.

Mozi said, "It will not do. One who is wise must measure how far his strength can reach and go about his work accordingly. Even a scholar of the state cannot fight and hold up a man at once. Now you are no scholar of the state. How should you be able to accomplish learning and accomplish archery too?"

The disciples told Mozi, "Gaozi speaks of righteousness and his conduct is very bad. We ask that he be cast out."

Mozi said, "It will not do. That he cites my words while he slanders my conduct is better than nothing. Suppose there is a man here who says, 'Di (翟) is very unbenevolent, and his honoring Heaven and serving the spirits and loving men are very unbenevolent.' Even this is better than nothing.

Now Gaozi's speech and dispute are very clear, and he speaks of benevolence and righteousness and does not slander me. So even Gaozi's slander is better than nothing."

The disciples told Mozi, "Gaozi is the better at practicing benevolence."

Mozi said, "It is not necessarily so. Gaozi's practicing of benevolence is like standing on tiptoe to make oneself tall and drawing oneself in to make oneself broad. It cannot last long."

Gaozi said to Mozi, "I will govern a state and conduct its affairs."

Mozi said, "Government is this, that what the mouth speaks the body must surely do. Now your mouth speaks it and your body does not do it, and this is your own person in disorder. You cannot govern your own person. How should you be able to govern the affairs of a state? Stop for a while. Your own person is already in disorder."